View Full Version : Research Queue in the Beginning
I have created this thread because the other threads about this topic are not in the "Strategy"-Forum and also have spelling errors in the keywords, so that the search function can't find them (easily)...
it would be cool if a lot of people would post their research queues here, as a reference for n00bs.
Also, please keep post to the topic :)
Well my resesearch queue usually looks like that:
Sci Lab
Nuclear
Nuke Engine
Troop Bay
Factory (ealier or later if I am lucky/unlucky with the Berzoid)
Fusion
Fusion Engine
Torpedo
Fusion Warheads
Adv. Shields
Laser 1 (maybe later, depends if I expect people to build defensive ships)
Subterranean
Subterranean Factory
Subterranean Sci Lab
Advanced Shipyard + Advanced Repair(sometimes right after Fusion, sometimes only after antimatter for the repair)
Antimatter
Warp Engine
Rapid Modulation Shields
Phased Shield
Antimatter Warheads
Fusion Scanner
Warp Scanner
Laser Defense (sometimes earlier)
Phaser Defense
Warp Defense
Submarine
Submarine Factory
Submarine Sci Lab
Time
Time Engine
Temporal Shields
Temporal Warheads
Laser 2
Phaser 1 + 2
Temporal Scanner
Torpedo Defense
Orbital
Orbital Factory
Orbital Shipyard
Medium Repair
Orbital Sci Lab
Lunar + Stuff
Laser 3 (sometimes after Laser 2)
Phaser 3
Blackhole
and when I have too much money (not good) I research the terraformer.
And when a planet with factories is about to "die" due to virus or earthquake, I research cloning center and subterranean cloning center if need be.
And Type 1 ore conversion if I want to build rings soon or my planets are idle (also not good).
Science lab
Nuclear
nuclear engine
nuclear rockets
advanced shields
troop bay
factory
fusion
fusion engine
torpedo
Fusion warheads
Rapid modulation shields
Laser
Planet laser defences
laser I
Phaser
Planet phaser defences
Phaser I
Laser II
Type I ore conversion
Subterranian
Subterranian factory
Subterranian science lab
Advanced shipyard
Anti Matter
Warp engine
Anti Matter warheads
Phased shields
Laser III
Phaser II
Planet warp defence
Type II ore conversion
Submarine
Submarine factory
Submarine science lab
Subterranian cloning center
Time
Time engine
Temporal warheads
Temporal shields
Planet torpedo defnce
Fusion scanner
Warp scanner
Temporal scanner
Orbital
Orbital factory
Orbital science lab
Orbital shipyard
Medium Repair
Phaser III
Blackhole/Lunar + techs -> depends
Interdimensional and i havent got further :D
PS: same as fungus bottom note
JabbaWookie
27-07-2003, 21:40
Fungus is getting fusion engine faster!
I have seen forward, and this thread was on what people use, not to comment, so post your own :D
JabbaWookie
27-07-2003, 22:58
I have never written it down, and to be honest, I am too lazy to do it just to post it.
I do want to share my thoughts though :cool: .
So you say fungus' is better? then i want to see Relax' and Silents
i have to agree here... skip the nuclear rockets and the advanced shields... they have no point at that time... settling is much cheaper (especially with fusion engine)
and i tend to do BH and even ID before lunar...
Id like to keep them so id better do:
F warheads - N rockets - A shields - RM shields ?
JabbaWookie
28-07-2003, 18:06
That is better, yes.
If you think there is only one research queue... perhaps thats why you dont win all your arenas ;)
I heard ferion is a strategy game, and a strategy has to be dynamic... yes you all know this, but why do you discuss here about adv shields etc up or down ...
Hah, so theres nothing wrong with my queue!
And I dont use always thesame, but this is in big lines how I do...
Yes Lava, your queue is ok, especially if there is a certain threat from an enemy empire early in the game... and players like you often encounter bad boys who wants to take your planets early in the game :)
Hehehe :)
Maybe i revealed some of my playing aspects, but im a surprising empire, watch me ;)
Dont surprise, expand! :)
As far as i can see the basics that everyone follows are
Science Lab
Nuclear
Nuclear Engine
Fusion
Fusion Engine
Subteranean
Advanced Shipyard
Subteranean Science Lab
Antimatter
Warp Engine
If the situation demands it one can add in any of the following as needed, when needed.
Troop Bay
Nuclear Rockets
Advanced Shields
Torpedo
Fusion warheads
Laser
Laser planet defenses
and factories somewhere in there.....and any other tech deemed necessary by circumstances as they arise in the game
The important thing to remember is to keep your research fluid and moving along as fast as possible to keep ahead of your enemies in speed, attack strenght and research.
ok, will prol get shot down in flames especially since i'm still trying to get paypal to work so i can buy keys and unlock tech but...
:o
factory
sciencelab
nuclear
>engine
subterrainean
>factory
>lab
fusion
>engine
:confused:
and then varying depending on whether i need defense or planet grabbers seems to be working so far for me.
if anyone feels like messaging me to either give an opinion on the queue or point anything i'm doing badly wrong then all sensible suggestions are welcome.
well... in 99.9% of all cases you should do fusion before subterrain... since only with fusion you can expand efficiently (capturing planets that is... in a crowded arena you rarely find empty planets at that time)
nod, never thot about it that way.
seems a waste now that i think bout the fact that fusion engine is 110k the quick road but subt sci is 120k and then another 110k till fusion arrives
thanks
DaiWelsh
30-07-2003, 17:57
More significantly, you can only settle planets if other people havent beaten you to them, you can enhance your existing planets anytime. Fusion before Subterranean is 100% the way to go..
ah, so there isn't a point to troop bay then?
oh well, time to revamp my research track to
factory
lab
nuclear
>engine
fusion
>engine
( the rest of the tech tree)
troop bay
:D :cool: :D :cool: :D :cool: ;)
Originally posted by DaiWelsh
More significantly, you can only settle planets if other people havent beaten you to them, you can enhance your existing planets anytime. Fusion before Subterranean is 100% the way to go..
We dont want to see 100% tips from the game designers.
How boring :)
DaiWelsh
30-07-2003, 23:47
lol, if my tips are so dependable how come I have never scatched you in an area Relax?
because you did not exhaust all your means properly :D
Originally posted by DaiWelsh
lol, if my tips are so dependable how come I have never scatched you in an area Relax?
Your theories are fine, but winning an arena is more than good theories :)
Theoretical you are capable to beat me, but that isnt worth very much :p
P.S.: We are still Ferion friends, arent we ;)
Originally posted by Mac-600
ah, so there isn't a point to troop bay then?
sure there is a point to troopbay. the planets which you are too late for, but fast enough that no defense is built on them can still become yours this way :)
DaiWelsh
31-07-2003, 11:25
Originally posted by Relax
P.S.: We are still Ferion friends, arent we ;)
Of course :)
jeez,
can't believe u guys took the comment about the troopbay seriously. i grab it straight after fusion engine so i can snaffle planets
( wishes his bank would sort out his switch card hassles so he can register paypal and buy some goddamn keys )
you might need it earlier...
I always need it earlier...
zorcarepublic
31-07-2003, 12:51
Usually, I don't have keys, so its usually fusion first. Because of key, it is/was something like:
Factory
Science lab
Cloning centre
Nuclear(i think...)
then a load of other stuff. Do you think antimatter should be before/after submarine?
i prefer
fusion, subterrain, antimatter, submarine, time, orbital, blackhole, interdimensional, lunar.
others might do lunar right after orbital, because they want to orbital enhance faster...
crissXcross
25-08-2003, 11:58
I used to prefere to develope expand (war) technoligy first, but I never used a research queue twice.
I think in this case Relax has allready said the most important thing, no arena is like another so you should research what you need in your individual situation with the maingoal to expand asap.
I like to do lunar before ID so i can enhance planets without putting pop into science :)
VargVeum
18-09-2003, 11:25
Factory
Sci lab
Cloning !!!!!!!
nuclear/engine
troop bay
fusion/engine/weapon
adv shipyad
adv shields
terraformer
subterran
Anti-matter
Submarine
Orbital
Time
Lunar
BH
Idim
I am surprised u guys dont build factory first, building the factory and then building the sci.lab at 100% science will give more science than building the sci. lab at 100% production
And whats wrong with the cloning center?
It will give you a few more ppl on all planets to do science, so on 10-20 planets over 100 turns those 500 science points should be well worth it
Same for the terraformer, it will be earned back in 48 hours if you build one, so upgrading your high class planets while waiting for Warp to finish is normally worth it. Normally the planet cost is 20-30% of my profit (not income) at that point in the game, so getting that much extra money is really something.
And why do Time first (which is ~twice the size of OrbitaL), and then build your Time fleet on Adv. shipyard?
And getting the planets up in size, to get more money is just as important as getting ships tech, thats why I think doing Lunar before BH is the right thing. The Lunar factory is a necessity when doing mass OPE.
Varg, keep playing novice arenas ;)
Rogue resurect
18-09-2003, 19:43
lol.
Then Relax had spoken and all fell down to worship his greatness. RElax has spoken all listen to learn fom his greatness.
Originally posted by VargVeum
I am surprised u guys dont build factory first, building the factory and then building the sci.lab at 100% science will give more science than building the sci. lab at 100% production
ahm how is that? a sci lab cost 500 no matter how you build it. and it cost exactly the same as the factory and you don't need a factory in the beginning...
EDIT: and also without building a factory before sci-lab it is built sooner
And whats wrong with the cloning center?
it cost 500 production and gives me 5/turn. I need 500 science more in the beginning than in 100 turns...
Thanks Fungus, I was too lazy to write this :)
not to inturupt to noobishly here, but dont cloning facilities give you social bonus and not any addition to total pop?
am i missing something here?
Endymion
18-09-2003, 22:51
no u are completly right
Enderlandia
19-09-2003, 03:36
Making the fatory first, it make the Science Lab in 10 turns, so 500 science points less for the Nuclear research. + 500 science points for the research of the same Factory. Same for the other planets with full population 13 turns before the Nuclear engine discovery.
VargVeum
19-09-2003, 09:48
Originally posted by ringnor
not to inturupt to noobishly here, but dont cloning facilities give you social bonus and not any addition to total pop?
am i missing something here?
That is correct, but as yourself had pointed out you start loosing pop. after u get 20 planets, and most vet players have a higher tax rate than 40%, which will give you 1 pop loss for every % higher than 40. So having cloning centers is a way of keeping as much of the population doing somehing useful, instead of wasting them on doing social to maintain planet pop.
VargVeum
19-09-2003, 10:46
Originally posted by FUNGUS
it cost 500 production and gives me 5/turn. I need 500 science more in the beginning than in 100 turns...
On turn 100 you might have 10 planets with cloning centres, that is .. ehem .... 50/turn.
And this would be at a time when you have empty production on your planet, researching nuclear, so building cloning only hurts credits from empty prod, so I would rather do it then, than wait till later. Whats the formlula btw. for empty prod/credits, I am not in an arena now.
As for the sci. lab. Assume: 1 planet, size 30, 40% tax
SC = Science points , PR= Production points
case 1 (mine)
4 turns 100 % science, doing factory and sci lab, 1200 SC total, 200 SC transferred to next sci. proj
2 turns building factory 100%, 100 PR transferred
8 turns building sci lab, 100% science
sum:
14 turns, 3600 SC total, factory and sci lab built. 350 SC now coming from planet
I could build factory after 2 turns, same outcome, and have some empty production turned into credits.
case 2 (yours)
2 turns 100% science doing sci lab, 100 SC transferred
2 turns building sci lab, 100 PR overshoot, turned into credits
2 turns 100% science doing factory, 450 SC transferred
2 turns 100% prod build fact 100 PR overshoot, turned into credits
6 turns 100% sci doing next project
sum
14 turns 3400 SC total, factory and sci lab built. 350 SC now coming from planet
So my way wins with 200 SC on the 1st 14 ticks. If you do it some smarter way, or I have calculated completly wrong, please tell me, I have no problem by being told I am wrong, but I want it proved, preferrably with numbers. I can see that if you fine twaked prod/sci when building sci. lab and fact you would be able to get 2*100 SC more, so its a draw.
I didnt know the outcome of this calculation before I started writing it here, I was convinced my way was better, so its always useful to get the numbers down.
@Varg: maybe you will figure out what I mean at some time. I am too lazy to show you now... :)
but I can give you a hint: factory and "overshoot" production are not necessary...
VargVeum
19-09-2003, 21:20
@Fungi
Why cant you just behave like a grown up and admit you are wrong :D
Rogue resurect
19-09-2003, 21:42
Well i think fungus is saying the credits are more useful than the clning centre. I use them coz i m lazy and can't be bothered to manage my social round it...
all right, I will explain further, although it has already been written a billion times by a billion different people ;)
your assumptions have the following errors:
only 40% tax at the beginning, you think you need the factory, I don't because I have nothing to build with it before berzoid and you mistake social percent for population (answer to this is in the other thread (http://forum.ferion.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1577))
what I do:
2 turns for 500 science the rest goes to social for increased tax
2 turns building sci lab rest to social
so after 4 turns my planet produces ~20% more science (remeber, planet is not full because of low rep) and I have more cash.
after 14 turns that gives me 500 extra science through the sci labs and 500 extra science for not researching factory.
VargVeum
21-09-2003, 23:03
OK, I see how you do it, and agree u get more science early by not building the factory. But then you also loose 50 empty production each tick = 100 credits, and you will have to take the cost of researching/building factory later anyway.
Yes, when you can do it much quicker, too!!
Im not saying my old layout.. nup.. but Research first factory second.. cloning center.. just b4 i enhance the planet so it doesnt take away from science to increase pop..factory always help maintain a nice balance between Sci/build with the income.. thats as much as im saying.. cant say i ever won and arena but i had a busy life back then. couldnt always log on.
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